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	<title>Comments on: Hitler, Bush and Historical Accuracy</title>
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	<link>http://takenforranted.com/hitler-bush-facts-93/</link>
	<description>Proud member of the vast liberal conspiracy</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 25 Nov 2011 07:16:44 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: johnny schaefer</title>
		<link>http://takenforranted.com/hitler-bush-facts-93/comment-page-1/#comment-6182</link>
		<dc:creator>johnny schaefer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Oct 2011 05:18:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>very good, thank you!  The documentary Zeitgeist also quotes this in a comparison to Hitler.   
I believe it was originally a case of generic/synonyms translation.  What&#039;s another way of saying State... kind of situation.  
It&#039;s interesting to note that FDR mentioned homeland 3 times in fireside chats but only in regards to other countries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>very good, thank you!  The documentary Zeitgeist also quotes this in a comparison to Hitler.<br />
I believe it was originally a case of generic/synonyms translation.  What&#8217;s another way of saying State&#8230; kind of situation.<br />
It&#8217;s interesting to note that FDR mentioned homeland 3 times in fireside chats but only in regards to other countries.</p>
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		<title>By: TheRanter</title>
		<link>http://takenforranted.com/hitler-bush-facts-93/comment-page-1/#comment-6174</link>
		<dc:creator>TheRanter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2011 16:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://takenforranted.com/2007/10/21/hitler-bush-facts/#comment-6174</guid>
		<description>Well, I owe you a major apology then! I completely misunderstood. No excuse for jumping to conclusions except to say that what you don&#039;t see is the large number of comments I get from people who are simply trying to use the comments to sell stuff. I delete those right away, so others don&#039;t have to see them and I guess it conditions me to see things that aren&#039;t there.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! Please forgive me.

In my normal work as a historian, I do excatly as you mention - you find a snippet with a poor citation and you start using Google Books which is just amazing and see if you can find the original. I also have access to some full-text databases through my university that are subscription only. I don&#039;t know the ones for 20th century Germany so I haven&#039;t really looked there.

The problem is that every citation I&#039;ve found is like the one that you give, but I&#039;ve seen at least four different dates and the context varies. It&#039;s either the day after the Reichstag fire, or the day the Gestapo was formed or whatever, but using my usual methods, I&#039;ve never been able to find anything of the sort.

Anyway, so I should have thanked you for your comment, and now I do. And I feel a bit embarrassed by the misunderstanding so again, please accept my apologies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I owe you a major apology then! I completely misunderstood. No excuse for jumping to conclusions except to say that what you don&#8217;t see is the large number of comments I get from people who are simply trying to use the comments to sell stuff. I delete those right away, so others don&#8217;t have to see them and I guess it conditions me to see things that aren&#8217;t there.</p>
<p>Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! Please forgive me.</p>
<p>In my normal work as a historian, I do excatly as you mention &#8211; you find a snippet with a poor citation and you start using Google Books which is just amazing and see if you can find the original. I also have access to some full-text databases through my university that are subscription only. I don&#8217;t know the ones for 20th century Germany so I haven&#8217;t really looked there.</p>
<p>The problem is that every citation I&#8217;ve found is like the one that you give, but I&#8217;ve seen at least four different dates and the context varies. It&#8217;s either the day after the Reichstag fire, or the day the Gestapo was formed or whatever, but using my usual methods, I&#8217;ve never been able to find anything of the sort.</p>
<p>Anyway, so I should have thanked you for your comment, and now I do. And I feel a bit embarrassed by the misunderstanding so again, please accept my apologies.</p>
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		<title>By: Scootle</title>
		<link>http://takenforranted.com/hitler-bush-facts-93/comment-page-1/#comment-6173</link>
		<dc:creator>Scootle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Apr 2011 07:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://takenforranted.com/2007/10/21/hitler-bush-facts/#comment-6173</guid>
		<description>Wow, you completely misunderstood the point of me posting that. That wasn&#039;t my book. I, like you, am simply someone pissed off with unsourced quotes.

I once bought a biography on Albert Einstein just to see if I could find sources for any of the quotes that are attributed to him on the internet. The few quotes I found in the biography had citations like &quot;Letter to ___, 1901&quot; or whatever. So then I found a book of raw material with those letters in, which I cross referenced to verify some of those quotes.

Now, thanks to Google Books, I can do that to an extent for free on the internet. Which is what I was trying to do with that Hitler quote. That book I posted was literally the only one I could find that actually gave some form citation with a date, so I thought it was worth posting here to point people in a direction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, you completely misunderstood the point of me posting that. That wasn&#8217;t my book. I, like you, am simply someone pissed off with unsourced quotes.</p>
<p>I once bought a biography on Albert Einstein just to see if I could find sources for any of the quotes that are attributed to him on the internet. The few quotes I found in the biography had citations like &#8220;Letter to ___, 1901&#8243; or whatever. So then I found a book of raw material with those letters in, which I cross referenced to verify some of those quotes.</p>
<p>Now, thanks to Google Books, I can do that to an extent for free on the internet. Which is what I was trying to do with that Hitler quote. That book I posted was literally the only one I could find that actually gave some form citation with a date, so I thought it was worth posting here to point people in a direction.</p>
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		<title>By: TheRanter</title>
		<link>http://takenforranted.com/hitler-bush-facts-93/comment-page-1/#comment-6172</link>
		<dc:creator>TheRanter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Apr 2011 04:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://takenforranted.com/2007/10/21/hitler-bush-facts/#comment-6172</guid>
		<description>[NOTE: I thought Scootle was citing his own book and trying to sell it here. I jumped to that conclusion b/c I&#039;ve had a lot of people use the comments to try to sell something. Given his/her followup explanation, I&#039;ve edited this comment to make more sense in that context and apologize to Scootle for jumping to that conclusion rather than saying thanks for the contribution. So Scootle - thanks!]

Sadly, this book like the others I have found has only a vague reference to a &quot;speech to the German nation, 28 February 1933&quot;. This is essentially the same &quot;citation&quot; I&#039;ve seen many times, though commonly the date varies. Furthermore, your quote is in English, so it is obviously not from a primary source.

A true citation would cite the source where the historian found the information. Did the author see an actual film in German or a recording of an actual radio broadcast in German of this speech that he/she accessed at some archive? If so, give the archive call number so that others can verify the source. This is how history is done. If not, did he or she find a source from the period that does quote this, in German and that is contemporaneous with the event (that is, a news report from March 1, 1933)? Then the author must give the publication name, date, publishing information and page number. 

No, he or she don&#039;t have that either? Then at the very least I would like to see the author cite the secondary source referenced, giving author, title, publisher info, date, and page reference. This would already not be considered quality history, but it is sometimes done. However in the case of a commonly cited quote of Montaigne, I tracked this down to a misquote in a book by Philippe Ariès, then repeated by Lawrence Stone and then by many others, so we prefer primary sources, but a secondary source, if well-documented, can be used in informal circumstances, though it can&#039;t be considered authoritative.

Since this speech mentioned in that book you cite would have occurred the day after the Reichstag fire, such a speech may well have been made, but what is the source? What is the original? How does the author know it isn&#039;t a bastard translation of the Reichstag Fire decree from that same date? If it is not, where can I find the full text of the speech, in German, from a contemporaneous source, or a serious historian who has seen a recording of the original and excerpted bits.

I&#039;ve seen this date mentioned (and others), but as yet have not been able to find mention of any speech given by Hitler on that day. There was &lt;a href=http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verordnung_des_Reichspr%C3%A4sidenten_zum_Schutz_von_Volk_und_Staat&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Verordnung des Reichspräsidenten zum Schutz von Volk und Staat&lt;/a&gt; (the Reichspresident&#039;s order for the protection of the people and the state), but the Reichspresident was Hindenberg, not Hitler, and though an oppressive order, it does not contain the language constantly mentioned in these articles comparing Hitler to Bush. That same say, Hindenberg (and signed by Hitler) issued a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.documentarchiv.de/ns/1933/hochverrat_vo.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Verordnung des Reichspräsidenten gegen Verrat am Deutschen Volke und hochverräterische Umtriebe&lt;/a&gt; (Reichspresident&#039;s order against the betrayal of the German people), but again I don&#039;t find anything about &quot;evil&quot; (Böse) threatening the &quot;homeland&quot; (Heimat, probably?). A few days later Göring did give a speech titled &quot;Kampf gegen Chaos&quot; (Struggle against Chaos), but the language of the quote is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.geschichtsforum.de/attachments/f66/7635d1243952240-rede-hermann-g-ring-img.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;not in that speech either&lt;/a&gt;.

So the quest continues... and until then, I will assume this quote is bogus</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[NOTE: I thought Scootle was citing his own book and trying to sell it here. I jumped to that conclusion b/c I've had a lot of people use the comments to try to sell something. Given his/her followup explanation, I've edited this comment to make more sense in that context and apologize to Scootle for jumping to that conclusion rather than saying thanks for the contribution. So Scootle - thanks!]</p>
<p>Sadly, this book like the others I have found has only a vague reference to a &#8220;speech to the German nation, 28 February 1933&#8243;. This is essentially the same &#8220;citation&#8221; I&#8217;ve seen many times, though commonly the date varies. Furthermore, your quote is in English, so it is obviously not from a primary source.</p>
<p>A true citation would cite the source where the historian found the information. Did the author see an actual film in German or a recording of an actual radio broadcast in German of this speech that he/she accessed at some archive? If so, give the archive call number so that others can verify the source. This is how history is done. If not, did he or she find a source from the period that does quote this, in German and that is contemporaneous with the event (that is, a news report from March 1, 1933)? Then the author must give the publication name, date, publishing information and page number. </p>
<p>No, he or she don&#8217;t have that either? Then at the very least I would like to see the author cite the secondary source referenced, giving author, title, publisher info, date, and page reference. This would already not be considered quality history, but it is sometimes done. However in the case of a commonly cited quote of Montaigne, I tracked this down to a misquote in a book by Philippe Ariès, then repeated by Lawrence Stone and then by many others, so we prefer primary sources, but a secondary source, if well-documented, can be used in informal circumstances, though it can&#8217;t be considered authoritative.</p>
<p>Since this speech mentioned in that book you cite would have occurred the day after the Reichstag fire, such a speech may well have been made, but what is the source? What is the original? How does the author know it isn&#8217;t a bastard translation of the Reichstag Fire decree from that same date? If it is not, where can I find the full text of the speech, in German, from a contemporaneous source, or a serious historian who has seen a recording of the original and excerpted bits.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen this date mentioned (and others), but as yet have not been able to find mention of any speech given by Hitler on that day. There was <a href=http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verordnung_des_Reichspr%C3%A4sidenten_zum_Schutz_von_Volk_und_Staat" rel="nofollow">Verordnung des Reichspräsidenten zum Schutz von Volk und Staat</a> (the Reichspresident&#8217;s order for the protection of the people and the state), but the Reichspresident was Hindenberg, not Hitler, and though an oppressive order, it does not contain the language constantly mentioned in these articles comparing Hitler to Bush. That same say, Hindenberg (and signed by Hitler) issued a <a href="http://www.documentarchiv.de/ns/1933/hochverrat_vo.html" rel="nofollow">Verordnung des Reichspräsidenten gegen Verrat am Deutschen Volke und hochverräterische Umtriebe</a> (Reichspresident&#8217;s order against the betrayal of the German people), but again I don&#8217;t find anything about &#8220;evil&#8221; (Böse) threatening the &#8220;homeland&#8221; (Heimat, probably?). A few days later Göring did give a speech titled &#8220;Kampf gegen Chaos&#8221; (Struggle against Chaos), but the language of the quote is <a href="http://www.geschichtsforum.de/attachments/f66/7635d1243952240-rede-hermann-g-ring-img.jpg" rel="nofollow">not in that speech either</a>.</p>
<p>So the quest continues&#8230; and until then, I will assume this quote is bogus</p>
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		<title>By: Scootle</title>
		<link>http://takenforranted.com/hitler-bush-facts-93/comment-page-1/#comment-6171</link>
		<dc:creator>Scootle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Apr 2011 07:49:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://takenforranted.com/2007/10/21/hitler-bush-facts/#comment-6171</guid>
		<description>We have a citation...

[Scootle orginally gave a link to a book that attributes this vaguely to an address to the German nation on 28 February 1933 as a hypothesis for further investigation. I misunderstood and thought he was another spammer trying to sell his book in my comments and deleted the link. Sorry Scootle. In any case, the important piece there is the date, since the book itself offered no meaningful citation and I did at least preserve the date, though as I mention above it&#039;s only one of a few dates I&#039;ve seen put forth. Apologies for deleting the link]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have a citation&#8230;</p>
<p>[Scootle orginally gave a link to a book that attributes this vaguely to an address to the German nation on 28 February 1933 as a hypothesis for further investigation. I misunderstood and thought he was another spammer trying to sell his book in my comments and deleted the link. Sorry Scootle. In any case, the important piece there is the date, since the book itself offered no meaningful citation and I did at least preserve the date, though as I mention above it's only one of a few dates I've seen put forth. Apologies for deleting the link]</p>
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		<title>By: TheRanter</title>
		<link>http://takenforranted.com/hitler-bush-facts-93/comment-page-1/#comment-6169</link>
		<dc:creator>TheRanter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jan 2011 23:24:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://takenforranted.com/2007/10/21/hitler-bush-facts/#comment-6169</guid>
		<description>Hey Padre! Thanks for the comment. Great quote form Thomas Paine. That is so perfect. I love it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Padre! Thanks for the comment. Great quote form Thomas Paine. That is so perfect. I love it.</p>
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		<title>By: Padre M</title>
		<link>http://takenforranted.com/hitler-bush-facts-93/comment-page-1/#comment-6168</link>
		<dc:creator>Padre M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://takenforranted.com/2007/10/21/hitler-bush-facts/#comment-6168</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with you &quot;TheRanter&quot;, it is too easy to make &quot;quote&quot; that sounds close but then is used to twist or distort the facts and history to what the &quot;quoter&quot; wants. For just general discussion, it&#039;s fine if your not &#039;100% accurate&#039; as long as you don&#039;t insist &quot;that is exactly what they said&quot; and then dissect into pieces to cherry pick your proof.

&#039;He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.&#039; - Thomas Paine</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with you &#8220;TheRanter&#8221;, it is too easy to make &#8220;quote&#8221; that sounds close but then is used to twist or distort the facts and history to what the &#8220;quoter&#8221; wants. For just general discussion, it&#8217;s fine if your not &#8217;100% accurate&#8217; as long as you don&#8217;t insist &#8220;that is exactly what they said&#8221; and then dissect into pieces to cherry pick your proof.</p>
<p>&#8216;He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.&#8217; &#8211; Thomas Paine</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://takenforranted.com/hitler-bush-facts-93/comment-page-1/#comment-6164</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jun 2010 19:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://takenforranted.com/2007/10/21/hitler-bush-facts/#comment-6164</guid>
		<description>How about the additional evidence that puts Prescott Bush in with the Nazi&#039;s?  It&#039;s a proven fact that he provided funding to them through his banking practices.  The quote is just a piece used to back up these Neo-Con/Neo-Nazi principles.  Not saying the Bush&#039;s are anti-semitist, but doesn&#039;t the eveidence provided give creedence to the whole to go war/stay at war for money ideology?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about the additional evidence that puts Prescott Bush in with the Nazi&#8217;s?  It&#8217;s a proven fact that he provided funding to them through his banking practices.  The quote is just a piece used to back up these Neo-Con/Neo-Nazi principles.  Not saying the Bush&#8217;s are anti-semitist, but doesn&#8217;t the eveidence provided give creedence to the whole to go war/stay at war for money ideology?</p>
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		<title>By: TheRanter</title>
		<link>http://takenforranted.com/hitler-bush-facts-93/comment-page-1/#comment-6162</link>
		<dc:creator>TheRanter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://takenforranted.com/2007/10/21/hitler-bush-facts/#comment-6162</guid>
		<description>ismhmr,

Fine. Those are all good quotes. But you must have entirely missed the point of this article. The point is, these are random quotes with no citation.

You could have just made them up right now. Unless you cite your sources, quotations are worthless.

If those quotes &quot;can be cited&quot; than please cite them.

To be useful, a quote must be traceable to the original source. Anything else hurts the cause. Look at how much amunition the shennangians related to climate change data have given to the climate change deniers.

It is important first and foremost to be transparent and verifiable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ismhmr,</p>
<p>Fine. Those are all good quotes. But you must have entirely missed the point of this article. The point is, these are random quotes with no citation.</p>
<p>You could have just made them up right now. Unless you cite your sources, quotations are worthless.</p>
<p>If those quotes &#8220;can be cited&#8221; than please cite them.</p>
<p>To be useful, a quote must be traceable to the original source. Anything else hurts the cause. Look at how much amunition the shennangians related to climate change data have given to the climate change deniers.</p>
<p>It is important first and foremost to be transparent and verifiable.</p>
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		<title>By: ismhmr</title>
		<link>http://takenforranted.com/hitler-bush-facts-93/comment-page-1/#comment-6161</link>
		<dc:creator>ismhmr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 07:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://takenforranted.com/2007/10/21/hitler-bush-facts/#comment-6161</guid>
		<description>&quot;The German people are not a warlike nation. It is a soldierly one, which means it does not want a war, but does not fear it. It loves peace but also loves its honor and freedom&quot;

&quot;What we have to fight for is the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the creator&quot;

&quot;In actual fact the pacifistic-humane idea is perfectly all right perhaps when the highest type of man has previously conquered and subjected the world to an extent that makes him the sole ruler of this earth... Therefore, first struggle and then perhaps pacifism.&quot;

I&#039;d say its close enough. These ones can be cited.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The German people are not a warlike nation. It is a soldierly one, which means it does not want a war, but does not fear it. It loves peace but also loves its honor and freedom&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;What we have to fight for is the freedom and independence of the fatherland, so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the creator&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;In actual fact the pacifistic-humane idea is perfectly all right perhaps when the highest type of man has previously conquered and subjected the world to an extent that makes him the sole ruler of this earth&#8230; Therefore, first struggle and then perhaps pacifism.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say its close enough. These ones can be cited.</p>
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